Goldtent TA Paradise

Putting Covid-19 in perspective

1. Patrick says:

   May 16, 2020 - 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm

   WAit. Now add deaths related to the lock down. Untreated diabetes.. anxiety… depression… stress … family abuse… etc… etc.. where are those numbers????

2. Northstar says:

   May 16, 2020 - 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm

   But wasn’t the lockdown designed to prevent a catastrophic spread? Isn’t this proof it worked?

   • Fullgoldcrown says:

     May 16, 2020 - 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm

     This is not proof it worked because most of those green states barely locked down in reality.

     The phone tracing data showed they moved around a lot more that they “should” have.

     This is proof they needed to lock down major metropolitan areas NOT the whole Country IMHO

3. Northstar says:

   May 16, 2020 - 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm

   With around 60,000 dead in the UK (that rate would be equivalent to over 300,000 deaths in the US which has 5 times our population) we are now seeing serious complications for some children who didn’t even know they had it weeks ago. Adults are also finding their blood has thickened and are experiencing blood clots BBC News – Coronavirus: A third of hospital patients develop dangerous blood clots
   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52662065

   • Fullgoldcrown says:

     May 16, 2020 - 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm

     You have a rather overcrowded little island over there

     You needed to lock down more than other places like 99% of Canada

     we have half your population but we could fit hundreds of “Great Britains” into our sq. miles

     I believe it is all about population density.

     Still so much to learn however.

     In a closed environment like the Princess Cruise ship..with the virus circulating for 2 weeks

     80% of the ship’s inhabitants never contracted the virus.

     1% of those who did contracted it died. That is hard to explain.

     Do you know what % of the cases in GB were in care homes and what % of deaths?

     here in Canada it is said to be 80%

     • Northstar says:

       May 16, 2020 - 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm

       From the numbers I’ve been seeing, it may be around 40-50%

     • Patrick says:

       May 16, 2020 - 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm

       Yep. In quebec we had some nasty issues in old care homes.. skewing the deaths higher

   • Patrick says:

     May 16, 2020 - 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm

     What about the extar quantity of kids getting abused by fathers that lost their jobs and are full stressed out? Beat up wifes? Suicides? Where are the numbers. There are none. All we see are directly related covid numbers.. I’m trying to put myself in somebodies shoes who was making 90k a year.. where the 2k per month wont cover his base payments.. he used his savings (if any) and now is broke $$$ and emotionally. I’m lucky to be able to work remote. Other with low paying jobs.. the 2k is okay.. maybe even more than they used to make. Lots of collateral damage. ALOT more. No numbers, nobody talking about it. I was on the bazooka approach in the begining.. but now.. we gotta be smart. If policy makers were forced to stay home at 2k per month.. not sure we’d be in same situation.

     • Fullgoldcrown says:

       May 16, 2020 - 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm

       I agree with you Patrick…the collateral damage is worse than the “cure”

       I just posted a piece where an epidemiologist said that AT LEAST half of the deaths were in people who were likely to die in months before they got covid. Is it CRUEL do discount these fatalities ? As a proponent of euthanasia I say it is NOT.

       Meanwhile families will suffer for years and decades from the turmoil from lost jobs and social unrest as you point out.

       We protected the old (me) at the expense of the young.

       Of those diagnosed
       0% of under 20 die
       .1% of 20 to 40 year olds die
       1% of 40 to 60 year olds
       10% of 60 to 80 die
       25% over 80 die.

       Then ratchet these down by 10 times if you add those asymptomatic and mild symptomatic who were never counted.

       We flattened the curve and we have much more hospital capacity now and PPEs are growing exponentially

       The medical systems should be able to cope going forward and we NEED to open the economy and stop being afraid of eachother !

       • Patrick says:

         May 16, 2020 - 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm

         My mother in law came over today.. was afraid to use toilet.. because we’d have to disinfect it. I said enough is enough. Just go .. we’ll be fine.

         • Northstar says:

           May 17, 2020 - 3:55 am at 3:55 am

           My Dad’s neighbour went out a handful of times in the last few weeks, but picked up the virus and wound up in hospital extremely ill. Pot luck isn’t it?

       • Northstar says:

         May 17, 2020 - 3:47 am at 3:47 am

         ‘0% of under 20 die’… really ? we’ve had a number of deaths of people under 20. Even babies https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-lockdown-extended-boris-johnson-sunday-cases/

         https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/three-day-old-baby-dies-after-mother-catches-coronavirus-south-wales

         • Fullgoldcrown says:

           May 17, 2020 - 9:48 am at 9:48 am

           Tragic tragic tragic but it is still recorded as 0%.

           I am quoting Ontario Statistics.

           0% does not mean zero events it means the number rounded is close to 0% …so maybe .0001%

   • Fullgoldcrown says:

     May 16, 2020 - 11:58 pm at 11:58 pm

     NorthStar : Did you watch the video posted by Steins1 ?

     Dr. Zack Bush .

     Very Interesting and may explain GBs death rate.

     Think Air Polution , Soil Contamination , Statin and ACE Inhibitor Drugs and a whole lot more.

     Would be interested to hear what you think

     Fully

     • Northstar says:

       May 17, 2020 - 4:00 am at 4:00 am

       I don’t buy it Fully. Some of the highest death rates have been in Yorkshire and NE England, but we’re blessed with clean air. Poverty, obesity and diabetes seem to be linked to many deaths that don’t involve the over 70’s.

4. Patrick says:

   May 16, 2020 - 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm

   Also, I have not lost anybody close to covid.. nor do I know anybody that knows somebody that even had covid. So again, I might chance my mind if that were the case. It’s messy.. but I have a feeling it’s messy in the wrong direction.

5. Northstar says:

   May 16, 2020 - 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm

   Fair comments Patrick. I know many who have had it, and several who died. The lockdown in the UK was designed to avoid hospitals exceeding their capacity to treat victims. We managed that, but the cost in many other respect is very, very high and is undoubtedly resulting in much suffering and death.

6. Karl says:

   May 16, 2020 - 6:35 pm at 6:35 pm

   The single, basic soundest reason for extreme measures has always been to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. If hospitals are overwhelmed, hospital staff get badly infected and infect others as they get sick and protocols and behaviors deteriorate. If the hospitals are overwhelmed, uninfected patients get infected as things are done badly as systems deteriorate, or the patients can’t or won’t come in when they need to (heart attack patients, trauma patients…).

   I know for a fact from personal knowledge that in a certain yellow state hospitals have come close to being overwhelmed. Major hospitals transformed themselves in remarkable ways. Clinics or other hospital wards devoted to completely other areas were opened up for COVID-only problems. Staff who did not treat COVID-19 patients either stayed home or transformed their practices into all-COVID-all-the-time working all-out with many, many desperately sick patients, sick with multiple kinds of problems. Many patients with other problems did not come in. These other patients are now starting to trickle in, I am told, as the # of new cases lessens mildly. Even during the worst of the crisis I believe, however, that major portions of the hospitals and clinics were relatively empty as other portions were overflowing with desperately sick patients and frantically busy medical people. These places were going nuts. I can only begin to imagine what it was like in the worst of the red areas.

   As for which measures (lockdowns, masks, (anti?)social distancing…) might have been appropriate and who should have decided on them is another matter, but, again, the #1 reason for them was to prevent the hospitals from breaking down. Other rationales are secondary–maybe questionable, maybe sound. But the single basic rationale was to keep the hospitals from crashing and worse.

   I stopped commenting in part because I have too many things to do. I also stopped commenting because although I do not have the qualifications to comment as an expert, I had far more relevant knowledge from the start than most and was rather frustrated with many of the shoot-from-the-hip comments. Many questions are complicated without clear answers and I did not have time to correct all the stuff I saw. There is a lot of garbage being flung in multiple directions, from multiple directions, and a lot of speculation presented as fact. Speculation is fine, including unorthodox speculation, as well as orthodox party-line, but none of it if presented as fact without careful consideration of all sides and much data….I do not support any particular faction. I know enough to know that I do not know it all.

   In any case, I wanted to underline Northstar’s comment about doing things in order to keep the hospitals from breaking down, leading to further catastrophe — that in at least one yellow state the situation came a little close to break down I know to be a fact and not just from the media. In fact I think the situation in hospitals might have been more desperate, more of a close call, than one might gather from news reports. They had to make changes astonishingly fast, with rather desperate speed, in some major hospitals in this yellow state where I have particular knowledge. Many other things are unclear, but I do have some independent knowledge about some hospitals in one yellow state.

   • Patrick says:

     May 16, 2020 - 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm

     Thanks for sharing Karl. I was relatively quiet on the subject also.. this being a TA site first are foremost. Here, hospitals are empty.,, there is no overloading. Is a local lock down still warranted.. since that was the primary reason to do so? Hopefully we don’t forget the original reason why we locked down… and if that resolves.. we should remove it.

     • Fullgoldcrown says:

       May 16, 2020 - 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm

       Egg Zackly

   • Northstar says:

     May 17, 2020 - 4:04 am at 4:04 am

     I agree with your comments Karl. I have first hand knowledge of the UKs response to Covid-19 as a member of the Local Resilience Forums. The LRFs have been the primary response mechanism at a local level in the UK.