Loading ...Mass Murderer
I just got an email from a reader who thinks I am a murderer for allowing ideas that may cause even one person
to “let their guard down” and go out into the world and catch covid and die !
My response to him and any others out there who feel the same :
Thanks for your feedback xxxx.
All I can say is this is a debate. There are 2 sides to every story.
I do not see anybody being swayed from their hard held opinions by this discussion.
The righties are still on the right and the lefties are still on the left and never the twain shall meet.
I am the only exception.
I was a believer in the party line but now I question it.
Am I not entitled to question it ?
My main issue is censorship.
It is one thing to disagree and discuss in a civil manner.
It is quite something else to use ones influence and power ( money) to silence the opposition.
This is akin to book burning. Does this not bother you in the least ?
Is there not still some amendment to the constitution with guarantees freedom of speech , freedom to question the official doctrine ?
Or did I miss the repealing of that basic right ?
Anyhow all the best to you and family.
I am of the opinion that locking down the economy at this point does far more damage and kills exponentially more people that “staying safe”
This is not an unreasonable position . It has NOT been scientifically debunked . There is no way to quantify the extent of this but no honest person can refute it.
In My world ..Stopping economic activity is Murder ! Anyone who listens to YOU and remains fearful to go outside and therefore loses his job and his home and EVERYTHING …well that’s on YOU. How dare you imply that having an open debate may kill someone and that would be on me .
Meanwhile may I describe your position as being For censorship of ideas opposed to yours ?
If so then so be it and our discussion is done.
Fully
NOW here is an article that I believe must be read by all but especially XXXX !
“EXPERTS WHO HAVE JOBS DO NOT UNDERSTAND THOSE WHO DO NOT”
It is from the Washinton post ( a well know Liberal Publication ) Not from FOX News
It requires a subscription…so I will post it…copy and paste in the comments section
May 14, 2020 at 7:22 p.m. EDT
If anyone thought a global pandemic that has so far killed more than 80,000 Americans would override the country’s deep partisan divide, think again. It turns out that Democrats are significantly more likely than Republicans to believe that the pandemic is serious and to follow Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines. Cellphone data shows that people in counties that voted for Donald Trump have been moving around more than those in counties that voted for Hillary Clinton.
This has led many to wonder why partisanship has become so strong in the United States that people will not listen to experts, even at the risk of their own health. But there is a broader distrust that we need to understand. I recognized it while reading a book that is not about covid-19 at all but sheds strong light on the situation. Explaining why so many people across the West have rejected the government establishment, Michael Lind writes, “The issue is not the issue. .?.?. The issue is power. Social power exists in three realms — government, the economy, and the culture. Each of these three realms of social power is the site of class conflict.”
Full coverage of the coronavirus pandemic
Lind’s book, “The New Class War,” argues that the best way to understand America today is through the lens of class conflict, which has been sharpened by the rise of an “overclass” that dominates the three spheres he mentions. In all three, leaders tend to be urban, college-educated professionals, often with a postgraduate degree. That makes them quite distinct from much of the rest of the country. Only 36 percent of Americans have a bachelor’s degree, and only 13 percent have a master’s or more. And yet, the top echelons everywhere are filled with this “credentialed overclass.”
For many non-college-educated people, especially those living in rural areas, there is a deep alienation from this new elite. They see the overclass as enacting policies that are presented as good for the whole country but really mostly benefit people from the ruling class, whose lives have gotten better over the past few decades while the rest are left behind. In this view, trade and immigration help college-educated professionals who work for multinational companies but hurt blue-collar workers. So when they hear from “experts” about the inevitability of globalization and technological change and the need to accept it, they resist. It does not resonate with their lived experience.
Let’s look at the covid-19 crisis through this prism. Imagine you are an American who works with his hands — a truck driver, a construction worker, an oil rig mechanic — and you have just lost your job because of the lockdowns, as have more than 36 million people. You turn on the television and hear medical experts, academics, technocrats and journalists explain that we must keep the economy closed — in other words, keep you unemployed — because public health is important. All these people making the case have jobs, have maintained their standards of living and in fact are now in greater demand. They feel as though they are doing important work. You, on the other hand, have lost your job. You feel a sense of worthlessness, and you’re terrified about your family’s day-to-day survival. Is it so hard to understand why people like this might be skeptical of the experts?
The covid-19 divide is a class divide. The Bureau of Labor Statistics released a report last year on the “job flexibilities” of U.S. employees. Of the top 25 percent of income earners, more than 60 percent can stay home and still do their jobs. Of the bottom 25 percent, fewer than 10 percent can do the same. Anthony S. Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has said he understands that maintaining these guidelines is “inconvenient.” For many people, they are not just inconvenient; they are life-shattering. Not all of those who work on the front lines or work with their hands are Trump voters — — but all understand that it is a luxury to be able to work from home.
No one in the United States or elsewhere can claim to know the right way to move ahead. Even Fauci acknowledged that, when he was asked whether schools should open. “I don’t have an easy answer to that. I just don’t,” he said. “Situations regarding school will be very different in one region versus another.” Regarding the economy, he noted, “I don’t give advice about economic things. I don’t give advice about anything other than public health.” He’s right to acknowledge the limits of any one area of expertise.
So let’s all recognize that we need to hear many voices as we make these difficult decisions, and that those making the decisions need to have empathy for all Americans — those whose lives are at risk, but also those whose lives have been turned upside down in other ways by this horrible disease.
Fareed Zakiria Washington Post
Another Introspective piece from the Washing ton Post
“Protecting the Old at the Expense of the Young ”
May 14, 2020 at 9:49 a.m. EDT
Edward P. Lazear, who was chairman of the President’s Council of Economic Advisers from 2006-2009, is a professor at Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business and a Hoover Institution fellow.
The pernicious health effects of covid-19 are concentrated among older people, but it is the young and especially low-income Americans who suffer the greatest harm from the country’s disease-mitigating shutdown policies. The bleak jobs data released last week, showing that more than 20 million Americans were thrown out of work in April, was just the most recent in a series of reports highlighting the enormous nationwide pain. But a more detailed look at current economic statistics reveals how disproportionately the young and poor are bearing the burden.
During recessions, unemployment rates rise the most among the young, minorities and the least-educated. April jobs numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics show that the unemployment rate for those between the ages of 16 and 19 jumped by nearly 18 percentage points, to 31.9 percent, between March and April, while the rate for workers of all ages taken together rose 10 percentage points, to 14.7 percent. Hispanics took a harder hit (plus-13 percentage points) than whites (10.2 percentage points) and African Americans (10 percentage points). For those without a high school diploma, the unemployment rate increased 14.4 points, to 21.2 percent; the rate for college graduates bumped up less than 6 points, to 8.4 percent.
Full coverage of the coronavirus pandemic
Employment contraction was most pronounced among low-wage jobs. Of the 20.5 million jobs lost last month, almost half were in the leisure and hospitality industry and in retail, where average wages are around $17 and $19 per hour, respectively. The average wage in the country as a whole is about $29 per hour. Unemployment supplements clearly help, but when benefits run out, those without work will need to rely on their savings — if they have any.
Because individuals accumulate assets over their lifetimes, the young lack significant buffers. A Federal Reserve study reports that, in 2016, households with a head under age 35 had a median net worth of $11,000; those with a head between 35 and 44 years old had median net worth of about $60,000; with a head between 65 and 74 years old, $224,000. Among all workers, the lowest-earning 20 percent, who suffer disproportionate increases in unemployment, have only $7,000 in net worth, some of which is illiquid assets such as automobiles or furniture.
Small businesses, especially in retailing and hospitality, have been badly hurt. The gross domestic product report for last quarter (January-March) revealed an economy-wide decline of 4.8 percent. In food service and accommodations, the decline was about double that. Contrast that with software development, much of which can be done remotely, where output actually increased. Small-business owners in the hardest-hit sectors are also among the least well-off among owners. The clothing and footwear sector suffered the largest percentage decline in output during the last quarter. The owners of small businesses in that sector earn 68 percent as much as the typical small-business owner.
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Suspending K-12 education with school closures and moving toward online classes reduces learning for all students, but it is most detrimental to those who need the most help. Children with educated parents who have computers and good Internet access can continue to learn during shutdowns. Those in less-advantaged households face a much tougher task. When all return to school, there will be an even bigger disparity in knowledge and acquired skills than there was when schools closed, making classroom education more difficult.
Older Americans like me are the primary beneficiaries of the shutdown policies. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports death rates from covid-19 by age. Of all covid-19 deaths reported by May 2, almost 80 percent are among those 65 or older, and 59 percent are among those 75 and older. Only 0.1 percent of the deaths are among those under 25 and fewer than 3 percent are among those 45 and younger. By comparison, auto accidents inflictheir harm on a much younger population. Of driving deaths, only about 18 percent occur among those 65 and older, while 53 percent of deaths are among those 45 and younger. The comparison with auto deaths is relevant because auto deaths are also partly policy determined by the nation’s choices regarding speed limits, safety regulations and road quality.
The Opinions section is looking for stories of how the coronavirus has affected people of all walks of life. Write to us.
I think I can speak for my fellow baby boomers in saying we are grateful that the country wants to protect our health and extend our lives. At the same time, we cannot ignore that most of the costs are being borne by our children and grandchildren, particularly the poorest among them.
We will for certain now begin to see a huge backlash from the Younger disenfranchised generations against the Baby Boomers in particular !
They will say
This disease is YOUR problem not ours. I can kill you and so what…you are all nearer the end than the beginning anyhow…you have lived your priveledged lives to the fullest and mortgaged OUR future. And now to protect YOU in your infirm old age WE have to lose OUR Future .
F^&*K YOU !
And you know what ?
They have a point !
By the way, the NIH is starting a trial on whether hydroxychloroquine combined with the antibiotic azithromycin in early stage COVID-19 is helpful. I know folks here were saying this is the approach to take since trials on those with most advanced symptoms did not work that well.
I couldn’t find a fox article on this so here is cnn: https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/15/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
With the number of deaths growing in the US, finding a vaccine and treatment for the virus remain a top priority.
The National Institutes of Health started a new trial for people with mild coronavirus cases that uses drugs the agency once declared as dangerous.
Both the NIH and the Food and Drug Administration have warned against the use of the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine combined with the antibiotic azithromycin, saying they should only be limited to clinical trials. The FDA says the combination should not be used outside of a hospital setting because it causes heart rhythm problems. In addition, several trials have shown the combination does not help coronavirus patients.
But the NIH said it would enroll 2,000 people infected with coronavirus to try the drug combination at home. Study participants must have a fever, cough and/or shortness of breath, it said, adding that the first person enrolled in San Diego. “Participants will be randomly assigned to receive short-term treatment with either hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin or matching placebos,” it said. “People living with HIV and pregnant and breastfeeding women also are eligible to participate in the study.”
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Nice but what does that have to do with this thread ?
Finding a treatment regime is a top priority.
Finding a vaccine which works may take years, if ever.
There is no “safe” solution to this problem. There are really only two options:
1. Stay locked down and destroy the economy, and therefore destroy lives and the resulting misery leads to many deaths. Holding out in the hope of a vaccine which works (no corona type virus vaccine has worked in the past) is a false hope.
2. Go out into the world, get exposed to the virus, and deal with it at an individual level. Eventually herd immunity will develop, and the virus will die off and disappear.
For the sake of the young, scenario 2 gives them a life worth living, and hopefully a future. In both scenarios the very old and frail will eventually get exposed, as this thing is very contagious. Fatality among that group will be higher, based on data.
On that basis, the best option is to lift the lock downs: “Go out into the world and face your fears”.
I would say that puts an exclamation point ending to this sharing of views. Thanks, Spock.
Logic from a Vulcan …go figure
🙂
I think the either/or is a false dichotomy.
a) We could have followed Sweden’s model where “super spreader” events are not allowed (except schools).
b) We could have followed New Zealand example or South Korea or Taiwan and most other countries that have competent public health officials at the national level ….
c) We could have done what we did (bounce from one moronic position to another).
The basic issue is that our government was caught flat-footed and the powers that be ignored any normal response modes. Early testing was a total disaster, PPE was a disaster, etc, etc.
The funny thing is that we helped the rest of the world as to what the best practices are in a pandemic (although Asia had more experience sure to SARs/MERs).
In any case, I vote to open up, use masks and social distancing and do the best we can. Super spreader events (concerts, conventions, rallies) need to wait until we have been tracing and treatments.