A Thought Exercise in Compounding Inflation and the Price of Gold
A discussion at the Chartology Forum …sparked my interest in this topic
Question:
“Why gold , as measured in USD’s ,should be going up ~10% PER YEAR in the U.S.
The real inflation rate is the cost of living — PERIOD. Not some voodoo measure the FED puts out, ex., energy and food, to hide inflation … core CPI’s around 2% currently … sure it is.
The government nor FED will ever be our friend, at least, not for the common man who desires economic freedom and wealth preservation. Which, for the former, seems to be few and far between these days … some day people will wake up when they’ve had enough, I know I have.
Quite shockingly, I took the low in 1999 at $250/oz and compounded the number by 10% each year and in 2019 gold should equal $1681/oz and in 2020 gold should equal $1850/oz. This does, however, not take into account how much inflation occurred after Nixon erased the gold standard in the 1970’s. Therefore, my conclusion is, gold should be much, much higher currently if it does in fact maintain purchasing power over decades. I submit it should probably be north of $2500 to $3000”
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Fully’s Rebuttal : ( I obviously have too much time on my hands 🙂
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I do not get what you mean here regarding the Gold price not keeping up with real inflation.
You acknowledge that gold has gone up close to 10% compounded yearly since 1999 ….I don’t really know why it HAD to do so
BUT OK…It Did…it’s right about where it should be( about 10% off) based on your thesis of 10% compounded inflation per year….which is a huge stretch IMHO.
What other commodities of finished products have gone up 10% per anum for the last 20 years ?
Milk , Bananas ,Suits, Oil ? I don’t think so …but even if 10% real inflation is true Gold is not far from where it “should” be
Then you say BUT in the 70s after the gold window closed there was massive inflation and this is not reflected in todays price ?
But in the 70s Gold went from $35 to $800 !
1971 the price was let loose and so 9 years at 10% compounding that would be what ? It would be $82.50 ….in 1980…but gold was almost 10X that number. at the manic peak in Jan 1980. It overshot by a factor of 10…it was ridiculously overpriced !
20 years later ( 2000)… the price was $250 …Again using 10% compounding from 1971 to 2001 …Gold “should have been $571 an ounce ( it was too low by a half if you still assume 10% compounding inflation per year.
And a few years later it was ‘correctly priced at about $650 .
You are completely defeating your argument that the Gold price should be much higher than it is now if not for MANIPULATION
Lets do the math.
First of all lets assume your theory that there has been 10% inflation on average every year since 1971 when Nixon did the nasty
What is $35 compounded at 10% for 48 years ?
$3600
SO if inflation has really been 10% per year since 1971 yes Gold is too low by more than half
BUT what if its been 5% per year ?
I am using this great tool
https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/financial/compound-interest-calculator.php
Gold should be $364 an ounce TODAY !!!
lets split the difference
at 7.5% compounding since 1971 ( 48 years ) we get
$1,126 should be today’s price.
Any way you slice it and dice it you can figure out If Gold is keeping up with REAL Inflation
All you need to do is Define REAL inflation and have real scientific PROOF for whatever % you can come up with
on the average annual inflation rate.
As far as I am concerned Gold has been doing just fine if you define its value from 1971.
Using the table below and compounding inflation of 10% per year from 1971 to 2019
1971
Cost of a New Home: $28,300.00
Median Household Income: $9,028.00
Cost of a gallon of regular gas: $0.36
Cost of a dozen eggs: $0.53
2019
New Home = $2,717,000
Median Income = $866,843
Gallon of Gas = $34.57
Dozen Eggs = $50.89
Obviously that 10% Real Inflation figure is NOT what has happened
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Lets try 5%
New Home = $294,000
Median Income =$93,902
Gallon of Gas =$ 3.74
Dozen Eggs =$5.51
Well these numbers are much more in line with reality
(New Home is a little low
Median Household income a little high
Gas and eggs are close)
So assuming 5% per anum REAL inflation since 1971 ( as opposed to the Fed’s Bullshit 2% target)
The price of Gold should be today
$364 !
Looks like someone has been strongly manipulating the price UP !
?
Bottom Line…If you plug in 8.1% compounding inflation for 48 years starting with $35 …you get today’s price of gold
of about $1470.
Clearly Gold is outperforming Eggs Oil Homes and Income !
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Real Bottom Line : What is Anything worth ?
It’s worth what someone will pay for it !
We all think / wish Gold was “worth” more
But how many of us are buying real physical gold here at $1450 . ( Not I )
Most of us bought some a lower prices , but have not bought any more for years.
But yet we expect others to pay these prices and more
Strange ?
FWIW in case its helpful for others–my quick and dirty way of thinking of 2 of these matters, to avoid wasting time and mental energy:
What prices “should” be:
For practical purposes it is not useful to think of what the price of something “should” be at a given time, especially in a moralistic sort of way. Prices are as they are. (Looking at charts and knowing about current conditions can help with *guessing* where prices will go, especially for limited entity such as a given stock.)
Manipulation:
Manipulation of prices of many things occurs. Lots of it. All the time. From many diverse sources, big and small. It’s inherent in the role of various entities to do it and usually pretend not to be doing it. Live with it.
(There can be interesting and useful discussions of price and value, but they require extensive essays, books.)
Copying a comment and reply from the chartology forum here to stimulate discussion
thunter
Great point Fully, but the bugs will ignore logic and ALWAYS have a comeback using cherry picked dates/data/reasoning. Comex argument is a bit silly as it gives liquidity to the PM markets and without it they would be MUCH more volatile than they already are. CASH SETTLEMENT has ALWAYS been a part of the rules and if they can’t deliver the gold you are still made whole. In USD cash. As I understand it all commodity markets trade that way. There are more paper goods than physical and that makes them more LIQUID, tradeable and helps flatten out the crazy extreme swings. One thing gold bugs seem to forget is that we are all holding/trading these markets not to have more gold but more coin of the realm. King dollar. You can’t buy real stuff with gold and I personally wouldn’t want to live in that world. Someday the dollar will likely crash and you want to hold things like real estate and productive assets. Some physical gold/silver probably should be a part of that mix as well. That said I believe we are about to see the dollar surge and gold/silver to pull back to shake out most of gold bulls that remain for another nice buying opportunity sometime Q2 or so next year. Rinse and repeat. Buy low sell high and with the dollars you make can buy you cool shit. Gold will only fly when the average guy on the street loses confidence in the system but remember the powers that be can keep THAT mess going a lot longer than any of us can imagine. They control the narrative AND the banks.
Reply
FullgoldcrownDecember 22, 2019,3:11 pm at 3:11 pm Edit
Ah a voice of reason ?
Exactly Sir Hunter
Futures markets were created to “smooth” price volatility and allow hedging for producers among other reasons.
Great point that is lost
If commodities ( and Gold) didn’t have futures markets their price discovery would be pure chaos.
Speculators want to “Play” so “Commercials…sell them contracts…so they don’t have to buy and store physical metal.
For every buyer there is a seller ..and it’s a zero sum game. There is no limit on how many contracts can trade.
Somehow this has been deemed as evil by the gold bugs .
Agree completely with this as well
Gold will only fly when the average guy on the street loses confidence in the system but remember the powers that be can keep THAT mess going a lot longer than any of us can imagine. They control the narrative AND the banks.
AND remember the average guy WANTS the fiat system to continue…..WE all WANT to be able to earn and spend $s.
We WANT the game to continue NO MATTER WHAT
What kind of people WANT the system to Fail and EVERYBODY to suffer ?
God Bless the Money Masters for all their wizardry in keeping us from crashing back into the stone age.
Thank god for repos and creepos and pomos and schlomos and whatever the F&*(K they need to do so we can
buy cool stuff and eat every day.
?