The facts Ma’am nothing but the facts.
Excerpts from an AI chat.
*”I just want to understand how 80% to 90% dore bars and or concentrates is more profitable to refine that the higher silver content of sterling silver?”*
It seems counterintuitive, but for an industrial refinery, the
purity percentage is less important than the chemistry of the impurities and the volume of the contract.
Here is why 80% mine dore is more profitable to process than 92.5% sterling silver scrap:
1. The “Cleanliness” of Impurities
- Mine Dore: The “impurities” in gold/silver dore are typically just the other precious metal (e.g., a gold bar with 20% silver). These are easy to separate using standard electrolytic cells or the Miller Process at large facilities like the Royal Canadian Mint.
- Sterling & Coins: These are intentionally alloyed with copper and other base metals to make them hard. Removing large amounts of copper requires massive quantities of nitric acid and creates hazardous chemical waste that is expensive to neutralize and dispose of.
2. Predictability vs. Sorting Costs
- Industrial Scale: Mining companies provide uniform, massive batches (bars weighing 50–100 lbs) with a known chemical profile. A refinery can put these straight into a furnace.
- Scrap Chaos: Sterling scrap includes forks, jewelry, and coins. This material often contains solder, plating, or stainless steel springs (in watch bands or clasps). These “contaminants” can ruin a multi-million dollar batch of silver if not manually sorted out first, making the labor costs at refineries like Asahi prohibitively high for scrap.
3. Financial Velocity (The “Float”)
- Lease Rates: Refiners don’t usually “own” the metal; they “lease” it to maintain liquidity. Because scrap takes longer to sort, melt, assay, and chemically strip, the refinery has to pay high silver lease rates for a longer period.
- Turnaround: A refinery can process mine dore and get it back on the market in days. Scrap can sit in “work-in-progress” for weeks, eating all the profit in interest charges.
4. Contractual Stability
Miners sign multi-year exclusive contracts that guarantee a steady stream of business regardless of the market price. Public scrap is “fickle”—it only floods the market when prices are high, which is exactly when refineries are already at maximum capacity. Refiners prioritize their consistent mining partners over one-time scrap sellers.
*It appears that this type of information, if it would become widely understood by the investing public, would be very disruptive to those precious metal coin and bar dealers wanting to sell those products to public.*
You’ve hit on a major “hidden” risk in the physical metal market. If the public realized that their “highly liquid” silver assets could face a 3-month wait or a 20% haircut during a price spike, the
“buy-and-hold” narrative used by dealers would be severely challenged.
Wide public understanding of these bottlenecks would be disruptive for several reasons:
1. The Collapse of the “Spot Price” Myth
Most retail investors believe Silver Spot Prices represent what they can get for their metal. In reality, during a refining glut, the “bid” price from a dealer often disconnects from spot. If investors knew that refining capacity—not just market demand—dictated their exit price, they might opt for Silver ETFs (like SLV) or PSLV which trade based on institutional-grade bars that never need re-refining.
2. Disruption of the “Junk Silver” Market
For decades, 90% “junk” silver coins (pre-1965 US quarters/dimes) have been marketed as the ultimate survival currency. However, as you noted, these are the first items refineries reject because they are low-purity (10% copper). If the public understood that these coins are the least desirable feedstock for a refinery in a crisis, the premiumsdealers charge for them would likely evaporate.
3. Dealer Inventory Gridlock
Most local coin shops rely on a “turn-and-burn” model. They buy from the public and sell the excess to wholesalers or refiners to get cash to buy more.
- The Trap: If refiners stop taking scrap, the dealer’s cash is “locked” in physical silver they can’t move.
- The Result: Dealers stop buying from the public entirely, or offer “low-ball” prices to compensate for the risk. This creates a liquidity trap exactly when investors are most desperate to sell and lock in profits.
4. Shift Toward “Primary” Products
If this bottleneck became common knowledge, savvy investors would likely shun sterling and junk silver in favor of .9999 Sovereigns (like Canadian Maples or American Eagles). These products are easier for refineries to “melt and recast” without complex chemical stripping, making them more liquid in a stressed market.
The “Silent” Counterparty Risk
The investing public generally views silver as having no “counterparty risk.” However, the refining industry is the ultimate counterparty. If the “pipe” is too small for the “tank,” the physical metal becomes an illiquid commodity rather than a liquid currency.
*Got gold?*
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/precious-metals/gold/gold-silver-glut-geopolitics/
In gold, the next major resistance level is at 7600. Yes, by 2032, that target was $8,350 to $10,000. The crisis in the Euro has not changed. We still see that in 2029. Now, as far as the discount in silver if you try to sell, the dealers are flooded. The refineries are so backed up that it can take 2 to 3 months to get paid. That is the reason for the discount. Plus, a lot of silver is being sold on the market by people who have held it for decades. I was told today that they are not even buying 90% silver coins because they cannot refine anything right now.
Shop Around …My Dealer… Canadian PMX …is buying Everything
But my other Dealer… Guardian.. is only Buying Silver Maples and Canadian pre 65 80% coins ( No American Coins )…Racist ?
PS….I sold some at $80 CANADIAN AND AT $100 and regrets now …NOT SELLING ANY MORE !! SHEESH
Interesting and timely!
Thanks to AI, and you for posting. Very interesting and I won’t be buying any junk silver.